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MOS - Conference Transcripts
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MOS Chat Log--Oct. 28, 1993
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MOS Chat Log 102893
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AFA GeneS : Before we started, I wanted to announce that we have
a new library in MOS. It's called PostScript PPDs and
what it contains is what the title says, a
collection of Printer Description files for most common
laser printers and imagesetters. The PPD sets are all
compatible with the new Level 2 LaserWriter 8.1.1
printer driver from Adobe and Apple. done.
Teknosys : Apple just posted some new ones today on AppleLink,
are you aware of these for the new printers release
this past week? done
AFA GeneS : If you mean the Select 360 and LaserWriter Pro 810,
we have them too already. They're included in the
LaserWriter 8.1.1 disk, and available separately.
AFC Pieter : Yep, Apple announced the 810 a little early.
AFA GeneS : Well, it's a warmed over Dataproducts LZR 2080
actually.
AFA GeneS : Now then...
AFA GeneS : Welcome to the infamous end of the month Q&A night at
the Mac Operating Systems Forum.. Our fearsome leader
AFL Bear may be a bit late tonight because of a
networking problem so I'll serve as host, moderator,
and cook and bottle washer. The crowd is beginning to
grow. Since BoardR asked about the LaserWriter 810
[as our first question] I'll give you a couple of quick
insights. It's a new workgroup printer, featuring a 20
page per minute engine, and a maximum resolution of 800
dpi, released by Apple and based on a Dataproducts
product. It's designed for large networks, handles 11 x
17 paper, multiple trays and is capable of simultaneous
Mac and PC ports--and simultaneous emulation. It also
features a Dataproducts emulation called Virtual
Printer Technology, which more or less establishes a
Chooser selectable item for each emulation the printer
is capable of. The rest is probably grist for the
Hardware Forum so I'll end it there.
AFA GeneS : If nobody has a further comment, we'll go to Rich24
for a question. Go ahead please.
Rich24 : My son's LC is having problems releasing the phone
port when he tries to print or use it for another
purpose. Any suggestions as to why this may be
occurring and how to free up the port?
AFA GeneS : Is your printer connected to the modem or printer
port?
Rich24 : Modem.
AFA GeneS : You don't have a modem, then?
Rich24 : Yes - it is connected to a switcher box - along with
a Midi. Do you have AppleTalk turned on? And can your
printer work from the printer port?
Rich24 : Yes - through the printer port. He hasn't tried that.
AFA GeneS : What sort of printer?
Rich24 : StyleWriter I.
AFA GeneS : Well, you should be able to run that from the printer
port, which would leave the MIDI and modem to fight
over the modem port, right?
Rich24 : Yes - but the LC is networked to another Mac and we
want to use remote printing with StyleWriter II
software.
AFA GeneS : So you have a three-way switchbox then.
Rich24 : The modem is a netmodem. 4 way switcher box.
AFA GeneS : Pieter, you have a thought on this one?
AFC Pieter : I use a 4-way serial switch, and it works just fine,
you might also look at the Applied Eng Quadra Port or
the Axion Port switcher.
Rich24 : The set up used to work - it seems to be a software
problem.
BarryP13 : What network software are you using?
Teknosys : !
Rich24 : Appletalk.
AFA GeneS : Teknosys: Your comment?
Teknosys : Curious as to the software running each port, sounds
like something is hanging either A/B in and/or Out.
Maybe the switch being turned before the port is
closed. done
Rich24 : Music shop, pocketPC and Stylewriter II software.
JKP : I have the same prob in my office. It only started
after going to 7.x. Unable to resolve. ga
AFA GeneS : It's possibly an init conflict of some sort. It's not
something we can solve tonight, but if you want to
check for conflicting inits (with a wink to JLR63), you
can download the Conflict Catcher II demo in our New
Files library. This product has a Conflict Test that
automates the process of finding a software conflict.
done.
Rich24 : Thanks for the ideas.
Penzance : Someone I talk with has a hard drive icon that keeps
disappearing. Probable causes? Solutions? She's got
System 7.0x; reformatted but happened again. Put in Sys
7 update that should have fixed disappearing file &
folder icons--no help.
AFA GeneS : Penzance: Does this happen when you use a program
that allows an application's window to be "hidden"
when not in use?
Penzance : It just happens.
AFA GeneS : If you select on the area where the icon is located,
does it appear?
Penzance : No and doing a find on files on that drive brings up
nothing.
AFA GeneS : Is the drive mounted? And is it formatted with a
system 7 compatible formatter?
Penzance : Mounted and formatted? Yes.
AFA GeneS : System 7 compatible?
Penzance : It's not my drive, so I'm not sure of that one.
AFA GeneS : That may affect this problem, of course. Is this the
only drive on that Mac, or are there more than one?
Penzance : I assume so. This person is not a beginner.
AFA GeneS : This is not a question we can answer without knowing
more about the setup. Have your friend e-mail us with
more information on the setup, maybe we can help.
But from what you say, it may be a problem with SCSI
termination and cabling too.
Penzance : The external comes up fine. It's the internal in the
Mac that gets lost Who should she email?
AFA GeneS : Anyone of us here with an AF attached to our name.
Penzance : I'll pass along what you've said. Everything worked
fine previously with the same set up, though.
TheRonster : My desktop has a bunch of icons for the three hard
drives, StuffIt Expander, and .a few other things. Why
oh why can't I get them to stay in place? I've tried
holding down Option as I reposition them, but that
doesn't "stick" either. I boot from one of two drives,
but they move around with new boots from the =same=
drive, too. Any ideas? (The "other things" number about
12, if that matters.)
AFA GeneS : Who wants to answer Ron's question?
AFC Carey : :::: uploading Desktop icon glue to Ron ::::
AFC Carey : LOL I have no idea, since I don't keep things on the
Desktop...
AFA GeneS : Have you set the Views Control Panel for icons to
snap?
TheRonster : Nope!
TheRonster : Don't like Snap to Grid. Should I try that to see if it
helps?
AFA GeneS : I keep about 10-12 icons on the right side of the my
desktop and the snap feature is enabled, no trouble.
BSHEFTEL : I need to set-up a dozen Macs-some PB's, others are
Modular-on a daisy chained Appletalk Net. What is a
fast way to do this? I've wondered if I can copy the
install disks to a Bernoulli and Install from one
cartridge.
AFC Pieter : Yes, or you could set it up on the drive and then do
a Net install over your network.
MSN Media : There applications that put the data on all machines
at once over the net and the packet only hits the wire
once.
BSHEFTEL : System software is all installed.
MSN Media : Apple makes one called LikeWise, and there's another
called Pump and Snatch by ???
AFA GeneS : Be sure, however, that you have site licenses for all
your programs. Some software will poll the network for
the same serial number.
AFC Pieter : MS software offers net install capability all you
need to do is turn on file sharing.
BSHEFTEL : Would that not be verrry slow? What applications do
that? have a name?
AFA GeneS : BSHEFTEL: Most software requires that you have a site
license for every workstation. All the major programs,
QuarkXPress, PageMaker, and lots of utilities look over
the network for serial number conflicts. But some
programs give you a net install option so you can
install a different serialized copy on each station.
MSN Media : It's very slow to do net installs on individual
machines, since the packets are repeated each install.
That's why Likewise and Pump and Snatch are great, less
traffic on the net.
BSHEFTEL : There are licenses.
AFA GeneS : If serialization isn't a problem, you could carry the
Bernoulli disks to each workstation.
BSHEFTEL : Is Likewise advertised, I've never seen anything
about it???
BSHEFTEL : That was the first Idea.
MSN Media : I think Apple keeps LikeWise kind of secret... and it
isn't as good as P&S anyway.
BSHEFTEL : But the cartridge sneaker net route will work, Huh?
Another quicky--At-Ease for groups, any comments or
experience?
MSN Media : The GraceLAN update manager may be a good way to do
that also?
Teknosys : Since you may not have any network tools, GraceLAN
may not be a bad bet.
MSN Media : The cartridge sneaker net route works fine... I've
done it MANY times...
BSHEFTEL : Thanks<GA>
MSN Media : I was wondering if anyone besides me is running
System 7 Pro
AFA GeneS : Yes. I am, I think Pieter is.
AFC Pieter : Yep, on an 840 and 650.
AFA GeneS : Probably Don Brown ?
MSN Media : What do you think? Many of us have it on our
PowerBooks, and are finding it quite buggy.
Don Brown : Nope.
MSN Media : (many of us at my work, that is)
AFA GeneS : In what way is it buggy, Matt?
MSN Media : Well, when I send business cards to one person, his
PB 160 crashes every time when he opens it. Also, most
of us are experiencing less reliability overall.
AFA GeneS : I know some software needs to be revved to support
it and anything that enhances the Finder could cause
trouble.
BSHEFTEL : What is 7 Pro?
MSN Media : That would make sense, Gene. I wonder if there's a
list somewhere of software revs?
AFA GeneS : Matt: I don't have a list of incompatibilities.
BSHEFTEL : Just come in from the woods...but?
AFA GeneS : It's a workgroup version of System 7.1 which includes
AOCE, QuickTime, AppleScript and some Finder tricks,
in one $149 package.
BSHEFTEL : Running on Appleshare server?
AFA GeneS : No server version out yet. It's client versions now.
AFC Pieter : or $999 for a 10 pack.
MSN Media : I love the Peer to Peer mail. IT's VERY cleanly
integrated into the System software.
AFC Pieter : The PowerShare server is due out 1st qtr 94.
MSN Media : But I still see great need for the server. Star*Nine is
coming out with a QM gateway, as well as several
others
AFA GeneS : But you might try disabling non-Apple inits and see
if that causes the crashes to cease.
Teknosys : There is no list, at least none we know of or will
speak about, yet ;-)
MSN Media : Tek: does the latest version of Help know about
System 7 Pro?
Teknosys : No, we only had the betas and have not received a
release copy yet. Problem is that Apple is making us
buy the release copy, same for you guys Don? done
Don Brown : Teknosys, actually, don't know--I'm not on the
messaging team.
Teknosys : We hope to have S7 Pro info by the January release in
force. done
MSN Media : Don, living in Iowa, do you work for CE software?
AFC Carey : You might say that, MSN...
Don Brown : Yes, MSN, I do.
AFC Carey : Do you have QuicKeys? Look at the "About"...
MSN Media : Are there any shipping products that complement
System 7 Pro?
Don Brown : If you mean from CE, well, QuicKeys compliments the
AppleScript part very well. Nothing from CE for AOCE
yet, though we are working on making sure gateways are
available, as well as the QuickMail interface running
under AOCE.
MSN Media : I was wondering more about the AOCE features, Don.
Don Brown : Like I said, nothing yet!
MSN Media : Star*Nine's personal gateway to QM is en route to me
now. I sure look forward to checking it out. Novell
tells me that they're going to use AOCE as the gateway
to Global MHS and Netware 4.0 entry.
AFA GeneS : DR Curly: You have the floor. What's your question?
DR Curly : I'm finding the floppy drive in my Centris 660AV to be
annoyingly sensitive. It will not recognize some disks,
will crash with others. Some boot up fine. Any comments
that would unbaffle an ex-Plus user?
Teknosys : Did you read the release notes that came with the
machine?
DR Curly : I don't recall reading them.
Teknosys : Seems Apple knows of this problem and the people who
duplicate disks on high speed duplicators may have a
problem. The release notes for your machine may talk
about a 10% fallout, yea right. done
AFA GeneS : Does that answer your question, DR?
IleneH : it may answer it -- but it doesn't help him! %;-}
DR Curly : Yes, is there a remedy?
Teknosys : We replace any disks people have a problem with using
ones duped on personal machines, good luck 800-SOS-
APPL.
AFA GeneS : DR Curly: If you have another Mac handy, you could
make a duplicate of the disks on that one. Sometimes
that works.
DR Curly : What can the software manufacturers do? I cant install
some of there products.
AFA GeneS : And calling Apple won't hurt? Either make a duplicate
on another Mac, or call the developer for a new set of
disks.
DR Curly : What are they doing about it?
AFA GeneS : Good question: They aren't here to tell us. :)
DR Curly : I have two set5s of disks from painter 2.0 that do
not load via my floppy Is it FD or Apple that is ?g
ga & thanks.
AFA GeneS : DR If you can make a copy of those disks on another
Mac, maybe that'll work for now.
IleneH : CAll Fractal Design and complain to them!
AFA GeneS : One hopes Apple will get the message about the
tighter drive specs causing troubles for some folks.
I'm sorry our answers aren't final on this one, DR.
[Editor's Note: We've got one more answer to offer, not
mentioned in the conference. Using composite SIMMs in
an AV Mac can result in problems reading data from
floppy drives.]
TechSquare : !
AFA GeneS : Did you have a comment about this, TechSquare?
TechSquare : Yes. First a question. Someone mentioned release
notes about the floppy drive? Are you sure it was from
Apple?
Teknosys : It was a TeachText file already on the machine when
pulled out of the box.
TechSquare : Hmm. Ok Thanks.
AFA GeneS : All right, anyone else have a question, as we wind
down here?
IleneH : ??
AFA GeneS : Yes, Ilene.
IleneH : So Gene we read your review [December 1993 Macworld]
good!), but have a couple of ??s on the 840av?
IleneH : Can a 840AV capture 30 frame per sec. video & 16 bit
sound & time code without extra hardware?
AFC Pieter : More like 24.
MSN Media : Maybe 30fps at 160x120, but not much more resolution
MSN Media : furthermore, I think it only captures at 8 bit.
AFC Pieter : You can get about 20-24 fps at normal resolution 320
by something.
IleneH : Is 160 x 120 the size of the original Quicktime
window?
MSN Media : Either a Radius VideoVision Studio, RasterOps
MoviePak, or SuperMac Digital Film or some other
capture card with a JPEG compression chip. Yes. 160x120
is original QT. 320x240 is Compact Video, and 640x480
is "full screen" NTSC.
IleneH : Is there a JPEG compression card for the 840's DAV
slot?
AFC Pieter : Not yet.
IleneH : So Pieter, can we call you or MSN for advice when we
are ready to buy?
AFC Pieter : Sure Ilene, I love mine.
AFA GeneS : Pieter will give you 10% off his usual high price for
consultation, Ilene..
Dogcow : Gee, thanks :/ What's the deal with the new floppy
drives? The ones with a button?
AFA GeneS : No button. Just no auto-inject, meaning it doesn't sort
of grab the floppy out of your hand when you insert it.
Dogcow : All right, then, but does it still eject?
AFA GeneS : Yep! A cheap Mac is not like a cheap PC :)
ChuckS26 : LOL
AFA GeneS : At least not yet :)
Dogcow : Thank goodness for that! Thanks! <ga>
MSN Media : If a cheap mac WERE like a cheap PC, we could have
DUOs with Floppy drive!!!
AFA GeneS : :)
Masashi : ? (emergency - help me)
AFA GeneS : Yes, Masashi.
Masashi : I suddenly got Type 1 error when I open AOL app. It
goes well with ext off with shift key.
AFA GeneS : Masashi: It does appear to be an Extension. conflict
then. Best thing to do is disable half your inits, and
see if the problem continues. If not, add them rest
back in small groups, till it returns.
ChuckS26 : Has the type 1 error happened more than once?
Masashi : I did that. but crashes without shift key even when
all off with startup manager!
Teknosys : What version of Startup Manager?
AFA GeneS : If you take out Startup Manager and Now Toolbox, does
it still happen?
Masashi : Yes.
MSN Media : Try increasing the RAM partition for the application
in the get info box.
AFA GeneS : What kind of Mac, Masashi? And how much memory--are you
using 32-bit mode? I'll try that. BTW I use Worldscript
II (Japanese)I'm in 32-bit. 24 MB.
AFA GeneS : What kind of Mac?
Masashi : Q800. Great machine, still.
AFA GeneS : Yes, we shouldn't hold that against it.
Teknosys : Hardware System Update >= 2.0?
Masashi : Is there any known conflict with Japanese Language
kit?
Masashi : HSU 2.0.1.
AFA GeneS : Masashi: I'm not aware of any. Do you have the latest
AOL software (2.0.1)?
Masashi : Mine is still 2.0.
AFA GeneS : The difference is really slight.
ChuckS26 : Try starting with shift key down. Trash NOW Toolbox,
start again, reinstall toolbox more. You should be
using version 4.01p of NOW Toolbox which is often the
culprit with type 1 errors.
AFA GeneS : Also, maybe trash your Now preference files WHILE
Extensions are off!
ChuckS26 : YES!!!
AFA GeneS : The 4.0.1p update is required for any Mac with a
System Enabler.
Masashi : Yes, mine is 4.0.1p
Teknosys : Which enabler for the 800?
AFA GeneS : The 800 uses the 040 Enabler...We've got the latest 1.1
version in our New Files library.
Masashi : 040 v1.1 (the latest I know of).
AFA GeneS : There may be a bug fix or two there, cause I noticed
that a couple of software incompatibilities vanished
when I installed it.
Masashi : Sounds good.
ChuckS26 : Enabler 040 is ALWAYS losing its bundle bits..any
idea why?
AFA GeneS : Chuck: That's Norton Utilities problem, not the
Enabler. Just ignore it.
ChuckS26 : ahaaaa!!
IleneH : Yeah, I ignore chuck a lot!
ChuckS26 : ouch :-(
AFA GeneS : That program is a little overzealous in looking for
lost bundles :)
ChuckS26 : hehehe
AFA GeneS : But I'd rather lose a bundle than a marble, if I had a
bundle to lose :)
ChuckS26 : I lost my marbles in the 60's.
AFA GeneS : Anyone have a question that is not answered? Or an
answer that is not questioned?
BSHEFTEL : I need a recommendation for a Inexpensive printer
(laser?) light duty.
AFA GeneS : Look at the H-P LaserJet 4ML. About a grand I think.
BSHEFTEL : Think the QD Stylewriter II is too slow?
AFA GeneS : If you're doing heavy duty desktop publishing and
graphic work, yes.
Gluppie : Think the QD Stylewriter II is too slow?
BSHEFTEL : What about RealTech?
MSN Media : Apple's got some new ones too LW 360?
BSHEFTEL : Those pics in every ad.
MSN Media : Also GCC.
AFA GeneS : Don't know about that model. The 360 is a bit higher
in price, however.
MSN Media : HP has the new DeskWriter 310... looks like a
spaceship.
BSHEFTEL : I'm worried about support from GCC--still have a
HyperDrive around here...somewhere.
AFA GeneS : Depends on your budget. I'd say go for an inexpensive
true PostScript laser printer. GCCs are clones.
Teknosys : Real P. at RealTech is a nice guy and stands behind
the product line. They have a good return policy.
MSN Media : Didn't say I LIKED GCC, but it is an option.
BSHEFTEL : Good photos, too.:)
AFA GeneS : I haven't examined 360 output yet, but it seems to be
a very fast printer from the initial benchmarks I've
seen. It doesn't seem light duty to me. You may also
get a good closeout on the LaserWriter Pro 600, which
is being discontinued. The 630 will stay in production.
BSHEFTEL : 600 is going for 950.?
AFA GeneS : No way.
AFA GeneS : The new H-P printer is in that price area, however.
IleneH : Which is a good printer for a one-person operation by
Apple?
BSHEFTEL : That may be the key--H-P seems to be making good on
their promise of quality.
AFA GeneS : IleneH: Actually, a StyleWriter II is nice if the
needs are light and the budget is small.
Teknosys : 600 for 1800 more likely.
AFA GeneS : (Yeah, Teknosys, that's the ticket).
IleneH : (yeah, wanna buy our StyleWriter I?)
BSHEFTEL : StyleWriter II, really- I thought about 1.5 ppm.
AFA GeneS : Something like that.
Masashi : Talking about printing, how stable and compatible is
the 8.1.1? I heard it is still full of probs.
AFA GeneS : Basically, older software may have problems with the
Level 2 driver, but every one that's current should
work okay. I use it regularly and it never fails me.
MSN Media : What did they do with 8.1.1? What specific major
fixes?
AFA GeneS : It's a minor update, I think.
AFA GeneS : We have a FAQ item on it in our forum's main window.
Masashi : Gene: Do you have any information related to 8.1.1.
and Worldscript II? 8.0 was awful with Kanji.
AFA GeneS : I don't now about WorldScript...the fixes include
better handling of multiple trays, a better algorithm
for the precision bitmap alignment feature.
RodgerF : I downloaded Laserwriter 8.1.1, but get a postscript
error message for everything I try to print?
Masashi : So I'm holding the 2 hour d/l of 8.1.1 :)
AFA GeneS : Rodger: From what program are you trying to print?
RodgerF : MS Word.
AFA GeneS : What version?
RodgerF : 5.1.
AFA GeneS : I use that myself, actually 5.1a.
AFA GeneS : I'd suggest you try it with Extensions off, the usual
remedy, and see....what kind of Printer?
RodgerF : LaserWriter - the original.
AFA GeneS : PostScript or TrueType fonts?
RodgerF : TrueType, I think.
AFA GeneS : That may be your problem. The oldest Apple printers
don't behave well with TrueType. I'd recommend going to
PostScript fonts if you can, or try the older System 7
print driver and see if it works any better for you.
RodgerF : Thanks I try postscript fonts.
IleneH : Any comments on Alsoft's little offer?
AFA GeneS : Which is?
IleneH : DIsk Express for 7.95 - its in Macworld and MacUser.
AFA GeneS : I didn't see it. Maybe they wanna up the cash flow.
IleneH : Page 61 in your mag.
AFA GeneS : I ordered some sort of update for Power Utilities a
while back, but haven't gotten it yet.
AFA GeneS : I just got the issue today. I was busy looking for
typos in my reviews :)
IleneH : I didn't know they updated it.
AFA GeneS : Disk Express, yeah, recently, 2.2.
IleneH : Review really reads nicely.
AFA GeneS : Thanks.
Masashi : May I ask what's the difference between AF Assistant
and Consultant?
AFA GeneS : Assistant is like the first officer on the bridge.
The Consultant is like an Ensign. The AFL is the
Captain.
IleneH : Well Gene, me and my broken tooth are gonna go watch
the news. Talk to you next week, hopefully.
AFA GeneS : Go watch the news. Night.
IleneH : Goodnight!
AFA GeneS : Everyone: We're gonna pack it in now. See you next
week, same bat time, same bat channel.